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Forum:Structures
Hazza-the-Fox 08:56, August 24, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Structures in this game are built by the nanocore mode (with the strict exemption of walls and defensive structures, which are built regular CNC style) The structure layout is similar between both sides, operating on roughly these lines. Conyard/Command Center (Tier 1a) builds barracks, supply depot, some basic defenses (possibly walls), and reactor Reactor (Tier 1b) allows construction of Naval yard, war factory and Radar, and possibly some other defensive structures. Radar (Tier 2)- allows airfields, resource generator structure, and advanced defensive structures like the Tesla Coil, Prism Tower, and if we decide to include it- the Grand Cannon. National units will be available at this point too. Battle Lab (Tier 3)- allows Chronosphere/Iron Curtain, Adv Battle Lab, intelligence structure (Psi Sensor or Spy Satellite), economy Saver structure (Cloning Vats or Allied Recall Station). All top tier units are made available at Tier 3. Adv Battle Lab (Tier 4)- allows primary superweapon and advanced upgrades and enhancory abilities; thus it should be treated like a third, abstract alternative to the superweapons. For one thing, it also is intended that it removes a weakness from the superweapons (Allied ChronoSphere can teleport infantry- albiet with a warp-in delay, once this structure is built) *the only possible consideration I would make right now is the possibility that superweapons and economy-savers are not capped (like in Generals). That is up in the air though. Hazza-the-Fox 09:55, August 24, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Not sure if I should add an additional structures tab or not- as both sides structures are pretty much the same save for the special ones- alternatively, there could be a lot to cover in the defense structure topic) VolteMetalic 18:52, August 24, 2011 (UTC): I will post both tables here. For now. Now to the things. I think that the progress in access to new buildings would be different. * Construction Yard -> Reactor, Barracks and Walls * Barracks -> Basic defense (Pillbox, Flak Cannon etc.) * Reactor -> Ore Refinery * Ore Refinery -> War Factory, Radar/Air Force Center and Naval Yard * War Factory -> Another defense * Radar -> Tech Lab, Air Field (Soviets), Defensive Superweapons * Air Force Center -> Tech Lab, Large Air Field * Tech/Battle Lab -> Design Bureau (Soviets), adv tech lab (Allies), Ore Purifier/Industrial Plant, Construction Yard, Advanced Defense (Prism Tower, Tesla Coil, Grand Cannon...) * Design Bureau/Allied adv tech lab -> Offensive Superweapons For the additional resource income I am against it, because it will even more allow the commando-spam. In RA3, the Ore Nodes even after depleting can give some income, but only a little. And Oil Derricks are also there, it will be enough. Sorry if you didnt mentioned it :P Upgrades will be unlocked be each technological structure, so Radar, Tech/Battle Lab and Design Bureau/adv. tech lab. For that Psi Sensor and "Spy Sattelite", they will be considered as defensive structures, and I agree on giving it to Tech/Battle Lab. Say if I forgot something. Hazza-the-Fox 07:09, August 25, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Pretty close to what I had in mind; Just curious as to your version of the tier 1a/b tab. There's nothing wrong with it at all, but wanted to compared ideas. I designed mine based on streamlining the basic structures a bit so players could quickly jump into their respective area (infantry, vehicles, aircraft and ships) more quickly (and build some simultaneous structures, defensese and soldiers down while putting the other structures up, so there's less waiting at the very start). It also means that 'teching up' is a little more out of the way of structures, and by ignoring things like the war factory to jump into air and high-tech stuff faster gives an edge. Of course, if this allows too-powerful units to be reached too quickly, it may be worth the reconsider. Your Conyard pre-reqs are good, and definitely require the ore refinery before the war factory, naval yard and radar. Yep- the intel structure can quickly compromise many tactical plans the enemy might have- so its best as a later-tier structure, and more in the 'if you REALLY want it' category. At the very least it gives any operative units more time to do thier damage- which is fair. For internal resource generators, I was aiming for having slightly 'harder-to-reach' natural resources in the map that players needed to try harder to keep control of (especially the supply checkpoints). What exactly is the Defense superweapons? You mean like the Prism Tower and Tesla Coil? (we might find we have a lot to talk about with defenses, so we might need a new thread). For the 'different' comparative structures, I was thinking. Allied Airforce HQ- supplies radar, 4 fighter bays, and possibly a UAV (acting like RA2 Soviet Spyplane). Allied Airstrip/Hangar: Consists of a large runway for its bomber craft (they'd look strange is tiny craft on the fighter runway), housing about 1 or 2 large craft each. Also comes with a Helipad (which creates the choppers). Soviet Radar- just provides radar, spy scan (temporary reveal target area)- and possibly assists nearby defenses in attacking targets further away (so players might be tempted to put it on the front line) Soviet Hangar: Comes with 3 fighter bays for the Migs, and a large docking platform where the airships and choppers are created (and repaired). Basically, the Allies have the advantage of easier and earlier access to fighters, but the Soviets have the advantage that all their other air units don't need reserved space and additional airstrips- so making a fleet of Kirovs needs only one Hangar, while making 4 Nightwings needs two Allied Hangars (this might sound very unbalanced- but as RA2 had the Soviets without fighters and the Allies without heavy aircraft alltogether, it would actually make less an impact than it seems). I'll cover unit tiers in the next post- as this one is going to be very long. Soviet Cloning Vats (helps make those cheap hording infantry much more a problem- and high-end infantry a massive threat. Also, the Soviets of course get the nuclear reactor. I thought of the Yuri's Revenge industrial plant and decided maybe not- as Soviet tanks are already generally stronger and restrained only by their price from being too attractive an alternative to infantry. Allied Recall Station; Allows supply vehicles to teleport instantly back to their supply depots (with higher returns), and also will periodically teleport in some light reinforcements (a couple of vehicles- kinda like in Emperor- Battle for Dune- which I assure you, is actually more CNC than even Generals is). Psi Sensor- exactly the same as the RA2 one. Any units try to move to or attack anything within the Sensor's radius gets its vector revealed to the defender. SpySat Uplink- instead of revealing the entire map, it has an invisible 'eye in the sky'- its basically the line of sight of an orbiting satelite, and you tell it where to 'look' at (it is essentially an invincble air unit that you control- it simply moves very slowly. It also has a moderate detector range too). That way, players will still need scouts a little bit, but they get massive coverage. Adv Labs- basically, both structures take the more balanced, nerfed units and superweapons, and turn them into slightly unfair ones- they each cost as much as a superweapon themselves- and thus are the 'third superweapon'- enemy players will hate these almost as much as they hate enemy nukes simply by passively stacking nastier odds in the enemy's favor. It also means that players will be more distracted by the combos with their light superweapons, and will be postponed from building nukes for a while. Allied Strategy HQ/Defense Bureau- provides lots of top-end upgrades, possibly a defense shield (like in YR), and also enhances several structures and units by simply being on the map. It also ideally replaces the standard ChronoShift with a super-Chrono-Shift (larger, and can also send infanty through it too). Larger, and able to transport infantry Soviet Control Center/Propaganda Center (Palace?), War Command etc; Similar deal- possibly also comes with a shield of some sort- but will also replace the standard Iron Curtain function with a super-Iron Curtain function- able to safely shield friendly infantry without killing them (although their personal shield might be less effective at protecting them), and harms enemy vehicles that come into range (possibly freezing them). Anyway- for those somewhat controversial economy structures, I was thinking- Allies get a 'Jump Station'- a teleport pad that warps in supplies every few minutes (they could also double as repair pads)- and the Soviets get the "Industrial Engine"- it churns out tiny amounts of cash every second- sending in tanks refunds the entire cost and destroys the tank- but sending in infantry puts them to work shovellnig coal into the engine- increasing the income rate (and thus making use of mind control, kinda like how Yuri did it). We should also consider whether the sides should get gates, and what their basic defenses should be (eg tank bunkers (probably Allied- they'd really need it), general-infantry-only bunkers, all-infantry bunkers, IFV-type towers, turrets that don't need soldiers inside (or allow soldiers inside to enhance their firepower), flame turrets (for enemies trying to rush past your defenses)- whether Grand Cannon should be in- whether Soviets should have a psi-based equivalent to the Grand Cannon. Another consideration is if some defenses (eg bunkers) should come with light naval guns to protect against ships (but can't shoot at land targets- logical as large guns are very hard to aim- which makes the Grand Cannon so much more special in that it can target land units at all). VolteMetalic 08:58, August 25, 2011 (UTC): This will be for long :P I am nto sure what you wanted to say by first paragraph. I mean it seriously, this would make it more easier spam high-tier units like Devastator or operatives. Ahh, sorry, my bad :D I eman Supportive Superweapon, not Defensive. i mean Chronosphere and Iron Curtain. Air Bases & Radar: Yes, I absolutely agree with it :) I also have and idea for the layout of the Soviet airbase ^_^ Here arises the problems. Cloning Vats could be OP, especially when you want to use Crazy Ivans. You have money for three, and in the end you have 6. And I am not even sure if they can be made possible, since structures are now independent, not like in RA2 where was only one "active". But dont take it seriously, thats only my opinion and thoughts. Recall Station, it could also be a sort of OP, since you will for nothing gain units. Psi Sensor: I am nto sure if this exactly is possible, but I guess it is, must have to ask for that. SpySat Uplink: Hmm... I agree it would be there, but maybe that you must select where the satelite will show, it will, and for some time you can move with it. After that it will be "gone" and you will must manually again set where it will be. Along with standart large view radius aroudn itself like Psi Sensor. I agree on that all, the names would be Allied Defense Bureau and Soviet War Command. For the shield, if it will be more reasonable, like they are different for both factions, than I agree, but like they were in RA2, no, I never liked it. And for the Super-Iron Curtain, making it that friendly infantry can be in effect I dont agree. I searched how exactly Iron Curtain works (and believe it was REALLY hard), and the principle is that it storages immense amount of energy, which it than launches into the area, where it covers everything. Vehicles and Buildings, being a non-living things, can withstand the weight of the energy. However, infantry, as they are living beings, cant withstand it and are crushed by the energy. So, there is not possible to make it like this. infantry teleported by Chronosphere, thats more likely, but when you will decrease the amount opf energy or Iron Curtain, you will also weaken the energy on vehicles. Since the energy covers the whole area equally, there is no way to make different layers, it will affect everything, not only what you want. I suggest that, instead of effect on friendly infantry, it will have larger area of effect.That will have the same effect. For another structures, I have no problem with Super-Reactor, but than what will Allies has as its counterpart? And Industry Plant dont has to be just to reduce costs, but it could also mean something else. And defenses, we should speak about them in different topic :) Hazza-the-Fox 09:48, August 25, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox No probs I was just interested in your approach is all. It used a slightly more indirect route to get to certain units (like the MCV/Conyard being a high-tier unit), and was wondering if there was anything I wasn't thinking. Awesome- I reckon this airbase dichotomy will be brilliant! And I'm interested to hear your idea for the Soviet airbase (I actually thought of one of my own- simply three parallel runways with a fighter-hut at the back of each- and next to the third fighter hut is a control tower, and next to the third runway is a large construction bay with an opening roof for the Kirovs) The Cloning Vats and Recall Station- good point. They are indeed meant to be unfair, though I wouldn't want them to turn too strongly into spam either. Wtih that in mind, it could be treated like a fourth unfair superweapon- with the free soviet infanty (and operatives) heading off the free Allied vehicles (including Sonic Tanks)- with the construction of either structure implying a missed opportunity to build the iron curtain. The Allies kinda merge some economy structures together- the Soviets build a nuclear reactor, and no longer need to worry about power- Allies can build the Recall station (sans vehicle reinforcements) and don't need to worry about resources or logistics, as supply trucks teleport back just like Chrono Miners, and adding the function of the Ore Purifier- gives a stronger return. As the Soviets don't get a War Miner, it gives the Allies a slight greater advantage than building a plain old Ore Purifier with existing Chrono Miners than in RA2. ChronoSphere and Iron Curtain- good to know. VolteMetalic 10:39, August 25, 2011 (UTC):Thanks :) I used RA3 as reference, and my sense for how logical it can be. <_> I had precisely the same! Only that the large hangar for kirovs and helicopters is directly connected to fighter's hangars, and the tower is beside the large hangar and at the end of the runways, or on top of the fighter's hangars. Yeah. When compared, Soviets will be in disadvantage... it needs somethign else for Allies. For Soviets, they can have both Super-Reactor and Industrial Plant. Reactor is simple, but Industiral Plant will dont make cheaper the vehicles, but decrease a build time. That could work, hmm? :) Allies would have the Ore Purifier, but what else? Hazza-the-Fox 01:34, August 26, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Cool! Could work; I was thinking that the Ore Purifier was also a Chrono-miner return station; but there are plenty of combinations we can do for resource/economy structures. VolteMetalic 03:53, August 26, 2011 (UTC): One way or another, the limit for these structures for Allies are 2. More cant be achieved because there will be no space for it in the menu. Hazza-the-Fox 04:23, August 28, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox That's fine- that's why I'm thinking of merging a few structure types together, so the player is faced with a single structure that solves many problems, rather than invest separately for a new capability each. VolteMetalic 08:05, August 28, 2011 (UTC): Ok :) I dont have any ideas what to merge with what for now :) Hazza-the-Fox 11:26, August 30, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox No problems- to be honest I have no idea what we should do with them yet either. :/ VolteMetalic 11:44, August 30, 2011 (UTC): Same here... so lets talk about the possibilities, and we would have it :) So, Soviets would have Super Reactor, on that we can decide... what would Allies have to compensate for Soviet over-electricity capacity? Hazza-the-Fox 15:12, August 30, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Well that's the thing- I figured if Soviets get a super-reactor to stop worrying about power- the Allied answer is a special resource structure that teleports the supply trucks back to base after they pick up their cargo- removing over half of their resource woes (both waiting times and protecting convoys when returning*)- throw in the Ore Purifier's ability to increase the returns you recieve- and you have a pretty sweet alternative to the Soviet Nuclear Power Plant. While Soviets are lazy with power, but worry about their shipments, Allies can be lazy with their shipments, but worry about their power supply? -On that note- perhaps we could look into an ability to loot fallen resource collecters (every time you destroy an enemy supply truck filled with supplies, the supplies are actually dropped as capturable cash or rewards)? It would encourage players to actually let supply trucks pass- but wait for them to return- so players don't just lazilly sit their tanks directly between the enemy's base and the warehouses and leave them to shoot at whatever heads their way- but will actually plan ambushes in the hope of getting some goodies)? Possibly something like Red Alert 2's random boxes that did various rewarding things when you sent a unit to grab them? VolteMetalic 15:36, August 30, 2011 (UTC): When combined with chrono-porting back to refienry, the idea with looting is pretty one-sided. When Allies will ambush Soviet convoy, it will be easy money. But when Soviets will want to ambush Allied, they will wait forever, because Supply Truck will be already in refinery and will go back to collect. And, you will build one Purifier, and there it ends, but Soviets must build a new Super-Reactor when they are low on energy. No, it needs to be tweaked... What about that Purifier must be build close to Refinery to give it increased income with each payload? Not sure if it would be coded, hmm... Yes, I think it can be. Hazza-the-Fox 05:30, August 31, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox In that case, scrap the chronoports, but I think keeping the plunderable supply crates on fallen transport units is a good idea. I reckon that would be a good idea- if you could build infinite Purifiers, but each needed to be attached to the specific structure to achieve their boost- that would be excellent! (it could pose a potential solution for the cloning problem too- though whether THAT should be infinite is another story). VolteMetalic 11:56, August 31, 2011 (UTC): It is, but question is if it is possible. Maybe it is. Purifier is normal structure, which you must build near the Refinery, not on it. And it will work always when Supply Truck takes the money here, you will gain more money than usual. Hazza-the-Fox 02:44, September 1, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Should work fine (if technically possible)- I think any further functions, or arrangements of which-structure-does-what will progress naturally when we bring the complete list of structures, and find what they do well, or not-well-enough. VolteMetalic 08:05, September 1, 2011 (UTC): Yeah, that would be needed. Will we list it here or on respective faction Arsenal topics? Hazza-the-Fox 12:12, September 1, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Good question- probably here, as it may make it easier to weigh both side's arsenals against each other in the same discussion. VolteMetalic 12:55, September 1, 2011 (UTC): Agree. So lets get started :D Construction Yard Hazza-the-Fox 14:20, September 1, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Well, putting aside the stats, both sides' construction yards are basically the same, and follow a similar physical layout; They are a mixture of command center, communcations center, and a large factory. The appearance consists of a long structure with a large exit for the 'construction vehicles' to leave, and on the other side are the crane and machines more typical of old Conyards (where the pop-up base defenses are made and transported). (I got a minor sketch- I'll put up on DA soon-ish) Most structures are made through the 'front door', with a few armory structures made on the side (the cranes etc will be constantly moving when constructing either or both). The Conyards are big, incredibly tough, and quite expensive. They are one of the few structures that generate substantial amounts of build-radius for defenses, and are required if any building is to be done at all. The Conyards are the deployed form of the Mobile Construction Vehicle- which can only be made from either the factory, or an existing Conyard (no difference of cost- just depends on which build-que you'd rather hold up for a long period of time). I don't think there should be *too* many structures required as prerequisites for MCV construcition- simply a Supply Depot is required. This isn't too much of a problem- if a player wants to build a second MCV that early in the game- they would be taking a huge gamble on the price and falling behind in the arms race. It does prevent the scenario that the game is virtually over for the player loses a Conyard early on. I think as a balance, if technically possible, that enemy engineers cannot insta-capture an enemy Conyard (the game could end very quickly that way)- but stand in front of the Conyard and start a slow-capture sequence (Generals style). Also, we should consider how 'selling' structures works (if we decide to allow it at all)- and how to stop it being *too* easy to simply capture (or mind control) an enemy structure and continuously sell it). VolteMetalic 14:31, September 1, 2011 (UTC): For the design, I agree with the long hall, but beside it would be large strucutre, with a tower of some sorts, along with radar dishes and antennas and all that. One thing, what do you mean by "MCV"? You mean that Building Truck which deploys into ConYard, or an actual MCV, large vehicle which deploys into ConYard, and can redeploy back to MCV? For not-easy capturing, I agree, but I am not sure about how it could be made in the engine, if it is possible. Hazza-the-Fox 00:44, September 2, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox YES! That is exactly what I had in mind; It sort-of looks like a war-factory (only taller, with a control center at the top), the path leading out of the exit is flanked by long, tall, thin structures, forming a kind of 'canal'. The canal is topped by a 'ribcage' of scaffolding (instantly making it distinguishable from other buildings). So this building would appear long. But on the right side of the building (our left), are more components- the construction crane, and any satelites and control rooms we couldn't fit on the top of the structure (or the mini-structures forming the canal, for that matter). Allies would have maybe some more 'hitech' or 'army style' stuff topping their Conyard, Soviets would get a few spires and domes (an attempt at disguising or camouflage- for both cases). Hmm, good point- I originally had "construction vehicle" referring to the Nanocore replacements, and MCV referring specifically to the Conyard-deploying vehicle; but we may want to rename them (then again, Conyards could be built by the exact same kind of vehicle that builds anything else). Cool- if we can't do slow capture, then perhaps the best alternative is to outright deny capture for Conyards till an upgrade allowing otherwise has been acquired? VolteMetalic 09:39, September 2, 2011 (UTC): I have thought more like in RA2 , similar layout. Yes, I vote for having one and the same truck for construction all strucutres. :) I agree. This would nullify this tactic for the start. I would make it as component of that upgrade for engineers enabling them to repair friendly vehicles. Hazza-the-Fox 13:56, September 2, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Regarding adding alternate light and medium tanks for sides as gameplay units, I'm actually leaning against multiple tank types per side where it can be helped- at least to begin with. Additional types of artillery I'd be pretty eager for- though in both cases it would start to factor in if either side is seriously lacking something; The problem with these is that players may well be inclined to favor one tank too much over the other and try to head off their heaviest tanks. Construction Vehicles; Cool- settled! Makes things much more straightforward. Engineer upgrade- Agreed (both for the repair upgrade and mixing it with some extra features). There are potentially a lot of functions I could think of engineers getting an upgrade for (depends what the engine can handle, and if they are good for gameplay). And combined upgrades are definitely the way to go- ensures a nice-all-round package that is very freeing for players (whilst justifying a very expensive price tag before the benefits are granted)- as a player who may have only wanted the field-repair ability, may find themselves using the numerous other bonuses that came as extras! VolteMetalic 19:29, September 2, 2011 (UTC): I meant the Construction Yard, not the old units. nod Hazza-the-Fox 02:40, September 3, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox OH! Gotcha! Yeah, I'm trying to work with something fairly similar to the RA2 Conyard (and with a touch of the RA3 conyards, and a touch of the Generals Command Center too). Generally the layour is similar- there is a large 'hangar' style structure on the back-right and a crane on the front-left, with the control structures behind the crane. The main diference is that because the (generalized) Construction Vehicle will now be exiting the 'hangar' structure's door; the entire 'crane moves boxes around' mechanism is now squeezed into a tighter corner on the side. Actually, you gave me a good idea for an alt model- I'll do a rough sketch of both shapes and you can let me know which one you like more (keeping in mind the old one kinda looks a bit like how my Shipyard is looking- so this new version may be just the thing to fix it). The only tricky part with the Conyards are that they are slightly similar-looking structures to the War Factory, with Red Alert 2 differentiating them by having the factories as elongated stand-alone hangar structrures, while the Conyard had a second structure to the side fo the 'hangar'. Generals did a bad job of this, as the factories and command centers both had these details, and were much harder to tell apart. It also depends if the factories and barracks are going to have repair-bays/healing wards (warranting an obvious visible cue on the model itself)- or if the infantry and vehicles must simply get their healing elsewhere (meaning the factories can both just be long 'hangars' and the Conyards' multi-part layout won't be confused with anything). VolteMetalic 08:02, September 3, 2011 (UTC): If you cant tell apart warr factory and command center in ZH, you have a serious problem :P But yes, lets see which layout will be best :D Hazza-the-Fox 09:19, September 4, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Oh, not at a glance though. :P In Generals, the structures were almost the exact same- same texture, same layout, mostly the same shape, with only subtle differences that required a second glance. China for example had a Command Center that was a large hut with a traditional roof connected to a small hut with with a traditional roof, a garage door and driveway attached on one side and a satelite tower on the other- the Barracks made of the same identical huts with a traditional roofs in a similar layout, only they didn't have a garage and driveway, and the War Factory was also composed of a large hut with a traditional roof connected to a small hut with a traditional roof- only the larger one was the garage instead of the smaller one, and it had a second driveway that went in a perpendicular angle. Basically it uses the same details and general shape- only with some very minute differences, which the player had to identify or memorize (based on which relative side is the driveway, lack of driveway, lack of antena etc. The fact that different side's corresponding buildings had less similarity in layout to each other than they did among their fellow structures added to the confusion. Compared to Red Alert 2- the Conyard was a large square-base structure with a bulky concrete garage on one side and a large dynamic machine and crane on the other; the barracks was two low, discrete cylindrical concrete tubes with distinct (team) blue ribs going across the top, and the Factory was an elongated garage with a distinct metalic roof; and these are probably the least distinct structures they have- but all of which you could spot them instantly without even reading them, simply by being able to identify their completely distinct footprint or focal details alone. Also, in Red Alert 2, the corresponding structures between the Allies and Soviets were very close in their distinctive details; the only exceptions were the very dynamic structures that had strong distinctive details (the Soviet barracks had a massive noticable statue of an infantry unit, and the Soviet Battle Lab was a palace while the Allied one was a glass high-rise). I reckon I could take the distinctiveness even further too- consistent manner of team coloring on roofs being one major way to split them up- Conyards have plain roofs, Barracks have painted roofs and War Factories have metal roofs- and then there are other details like yellow scaffolds to get the eye's attention ;) VolteMetalic 19:04, September 4, 2011 (UTC): Here I must greatly dissagree with you. I dont know how you play it, but I never had a problem with recognizing what building was what. What you ahev described is called "faction style", and while you are right that the structures uses the same design factors, you forgot that there are factor keys like size, layout and these details you mentioned. For example China which you mentioned here. *Command Center has large cylinder structure with two-layers roof, the garage has triangle-shaped roof on left side, the smaller cylinder strucutre on right, and the radar tower between them. *Barracks has a small cylinder structure in one corner, large rectangular structure covering the whole other side, these two structures connected by "roof", with a road and "campfire" with rifles storaged. *War Factory is large rectangular structure with large gate, with a balcony on the roof, with small sstructure in the corner, connected by tracked transport, and the repair bay, with a crane. While as you stated, it were all the same things, the way how they were shaped, placed and the overall size and shape of the structure differentiate it from others. I can say the same about yout way of making a different color of all units :) But we already settled that. Hazza-the-Fox 23:46, September 4, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox As I said, anyone can tell the Generals structures apart- it's just that the lack instant recognition. VolteMetalic 00:31, September 5, 2011 (UTC): No one cares about instnat recognition. Human's eye is fast enough to catch a unit, and when he isnt sure what it was, player looks again and in less than secodns recognize the unit. You would have to need a Sharingan to "instantly" recongize stuff. This is a thing which I really dont understand, I never needed that thing. Hazza-the-Fox 14:13, September 6, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Actually you'd be surprised how distinctive shapes can immediately override the need to look for something. They eye looks for patterns when it quickly searches for something; so finding an airstrip is easy because it requires spotting a large dark slab of tarmac with thin yellow or white symbols marking it up; it is a large, instantly spottable detail that even a player zooming around rapidly without stopping could spot. It works just as well for other details, like yellow construction pylons, metal roofs vs concrete roofs, even vastly different layouts instantly grab attention, so long as they are unique to their own type. In contrast, a player would have to actually stop to scrutinize the details a bit more for supplimentary details withouth these stronger differences- and these are more heavily 'learned' than the above (stronger acquaintance with the details of each respective structure). Kinda the difference between instant recognition in some Escher drawings, vs the 'spot the difference' charts. VolteMetalic 15:01, September 6, 2011 (UTC): As I said, I dont had ever any problem like this, or never heard of someone dont liked it.